Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby Matt Livingston on 5. August 2017, 00:26

I know we've probably broached this topic before but I can't recall. What would you folks say is the healthiest purebred mastiff breed of European stock? I was thinking the Dogo Argentino or the Presa Canario but what do y'all think?
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby Gun on 5. August 2017, 01:16

American molossus
https://youtu.be/2o6Z0SkkDfw

Kidding! Lol, I'm just obsessed with how dumb that video is, how clueless that guy is, my god... Might need its own thread.

If the dogo counts its pretty unfairly in favour of it I guess, being a mongrel pig dog. Although it has its white coat related issues.

If lgds count its probably one of them.

The classification "mastiff" is a bit of an odd one IMO. I've been in doubt as to whether it really exists, it seems to just be a collection of "massive" varieties of different dogs. Massive over inflated bulldogs and cattle drovers (bullmastiffs, boerboels, presas, ddbs, neos, rotts, corsos), massive lgds (tibetan mastiffs), massive draught and rescue dogs (st bernard), massive retrievers(Newfoundland), massive boarhounds (great dane, bully kutta, dogo, fila, english mastiff)...

By simple virtue of being big versions of what they used to be they are intrinsically poor in the health department. Like I said lgds probably suffering the least as they're supposed to be big, but it seems they're generally less included in the mastiff group than the massive bulldogs and boarhounds. If alanos count they're a good candidate, presas are pretty good. In general presas are in pretty good shape IMO.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby Gun on 7. August 2017, 02:23

Tosa's get described as healthy, and their fighting heritage cited as the reason, not sure how true it is? Some of the heavyweights don't seem that healthy but I guess compared to the kennel club mastiffs and even the hypetrain backyard bred mastiffs i suppose it makes sense.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby alk on 7. August 2017, 06:53

If your are talking about big bull breeds, than I think there are 3 breeds you should focus on.
Dogos, all Presa kind dogs and standard typ Am. Bulldogs, I think the last is often over seen.

When it comes to LGD´s, it´s IMO CAO´s, Kangals and Kuvasz perhaps CO´s, but most of other breeds are rare to find in a healthy weight class.
IMO every dog over 70-75kg could not be as healthy as one under 70kg.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby da pink on 8. August 2017, 14:20

Gun wrote:American molossus
https://youtu.be/2o6Z0SkkDfw

Kidding! Lol, I'm just obsessed with how dumb that video is, how clueless that guy is, my god... Might need its own thread.

If the dogo counts its pretty unfairly in favour of it I guess, being a mongrel pig dog. Although it has its white coat related issues.

If lgds count its probably one of them.

The classification "mastiff" is a bit of an odd one IMO. I've been in doubt as to whether it really exists, it seems to just be a collection of "massive" varieties of different dogs. Massive over inflated bulldogs and cattle drovers (bullmastiffs, boerboels, presas, ddbs, neos, rotts, corsos), massive lgds (tibetan mastiffs), massive draught and rescue dogs (st bernard), massive retrievers(Newfoundland), massive boarhounds (great dane, bully kutta, dogo, fila, english mastiff)...

By simple virtue of being big versions of what they used to be they are intrinsically poor in the health department. Like I said lgds probably suffering the least as they're supposed to be big, but it seems they're generally less included in the mastiff group than the massive bulldogs and boarhounds. If alanos count they're a good candidate, presas are pretty good. In general presas are in pretty good shape IMO.

American Molussus, ffs, where do they dream this shit up? Like that menk on Carnivora somehow thinking crossing a Presa with an EBT and a FUCKING AMERICAN BULLY would be a good idea. Some days, I want to kill people

Re: Dogo.....gievn they breed true, are they still a mongrel? At what point does a dog become a breed?
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby Matt Livingston on 8. August 2017, 19:41

Well for me I'm calling any large breed descended from the alaunt that comes from west of the Bosphorus a mastiff nothing against lgds but by genetics seems they have little to do with dogs that populated most of Europe. I look at breeds as when you close the gene pool and get a true type. Good suggestions all . I thought about every one at some point. I have to admit I'm a bit prejudiced against Dogos because of the white coat. I guess I seen one too many white English put down with skin cancer and other issues.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby sunnyAK on 9. August 2017, 00:30

Matt Livingston wrote:Well for me I'm calling any large breed descended from the alaunt that comes from west of the Bosphorus a mastiff nothing against lgds but by genetics seems they have little to do with dogs that populated most of Europe.


That´s right, that they have "little to do" with dogs that populated most of Europe. The funny thing is that the "alaunt-name" for these European dogs seems to be a big misnomer, as they don´t seem to be the descendants of the "Alani-dogs". (Dogs going back to the Alani people).
The Spanish Alano and other similar breeds in Europe, for sure have been around before the Alani people migrated to Europe and were just "European Bulldogs". The Spanish Alano was the Spanish version of a Bullenbeisser and vice versa.

Matt Livingston wrote:I thought about every one at some point. I have to admit I'm a bit prejudiced against Dogos because of the white coat. I guess I seen one too many white English put down with skin cancer and other issues.


Does anybody know why white colour is a big problem for some short coated western breeds, while it is absolutely no problem for LGDs?
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby Gun on 9. August 2017, 01:35

I assume its because they have white/pink skin under the white coat, while white lgds maybe have black skin? Or if not maybe the double coat protects them from the sun?
My cousin had to put down his pure ebt not long ago due to skin cancer, it was only 7 or so.

The deafness thing is a separate issue, it would go back to some individual ancestor being deaf, maybe even a white English terrier, so naturally it wouldn't be present in totally unrelated dogs.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby sunnyAK on 9. August 2017, 02:45

Gun wrote:I assume its because they have white/pink skin under the white coat, while white lgds maybe have black skin? Or if not maybe the double coat protects them from the sun?
My cousin had to put down his pure ebt not long ago due to skin cancer, it was only 7 or so.

The deafness thing is a separate issue, it would go back to some individual ancestor being deaf, maybe even a white English terrier, so naturally it wouldn't be present in totally unrelated dogs.


Yes, I mean the second issue. No matter if white Boxers (they indeed should not be white), white German Mastiffs (it is a crime to breed them), some Dogo Argentinos etc. Being blind and deaf is a big issue.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby alk on 9. August 2017, 07:08

So gun I can tell you every white, or in the main white LGD I have ever known, got pink skin under its white coat.
But normaly they do not have pink noses or eyelids.
I ever thought the blindness and deafness on many breeds goes back to two points merle-factor and pure white breeding. Merle is a colouration that is absolutely uncommon in LGD´s and many whites are very light fawn in deed.
I´ve never seen an merle LGD. But I think that gene is part of many white western breeds, and pure breeding is a relatively new thing on LGD´s.

Diseases on LGD´s are hinge disease and heart diseases, both from breeding them to heavy I think. Other typical ones I do not know.
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Re: Healthiest Mastiff breed?

Postby Gun on 9. August 2017, 17:13

Fair enough on the skin, I thought maybe since some look so much like polar bears they might have the same skin (black) lol. I know fawn/tan dogs in the western mastiff breeds typically have black skin, while red dogs typically have white skin, which is interesting really since they're thought of as two "close" shades of coat but actually they're quite different.

Like I said maybe its the double coat keeping the white/pink skin OK in lgds? My dad's apbt x ddb bitch is red with white/pink skin but has a double coat and never had issues.

I dunno, could be way off base too and there might be more to it than just sun exposure.
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