The Saint Bernard

The Saint Bernard

Postby sunnyAK on 13. September 2017, 04:11

The Saint Bernard
Image
Image
Image
Image
I just gave my little son a his milk and decided to start this thread, but I will go to bed again now. I already thought about starting a topic about the Saint Bernard the last days, as historically it is a very interesting dog for me. I would say it is a Mastiff and NO LGD, although it has mountain dog blood in its make-up.

Ths Saint Bernard is of big interest for me, because I feel like it started as Bulldog type farm dog and later was mixed with some kind of large mountain dog, but it isn´t a typical LGD! ll real LGD´s have at least a slighty curled tail, or a real curled tail, but the Saint Bernard has a "Mastiff type tail". Beside that LGD´s have a much longer muzzle than a Sain Bernard! And many American Bulldogs have been crossewd with the Sain Bernard to make them more powerful. The Sain Bernard has preserved its Bulldog type attitude and just has been enlarged to be a more powerful dog. I think the "core animal" of the Saint Bernard is a more stubborn animal and is pretty similar to the old English Mastiff before it was recreated. I have often heard that it had cetlic influence and there must be a reason, why it was used in the creation of fighting dogs, like the Tosa Inu.


More will follow and the text will be completed and hopefully lead to an interesting discussion.
sunnyAK
 
Posts: 897
Joined: 20. December 2013, 19:17
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Re: The Saint Bernard

Postby sunnyAK on 13. September 2017, 05:17

And here a Saint Bernard that didn´t appear in red & white, but was borne in black and white. Maybe some other breed was mixed with it, but beside the colour it is clearly a Saint Bernard. Pretty impressive in size.
Image
sunnyAK
 
Posts: 897
Joined: 20. December 2013, 19:17
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Re: The Saint Bernard

Postby alk on 13. September 2017, 07:10

You got me!
The black one could easily be a CAO too :shock:

I got some old stuff:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Not that huge in the old days.

I´m quite sure (not 100%) they got at least an LGD influence. But old pics really look very bulldog/mastiff like. Especially on the last pic.
I always think on old pics they are quite similar to rafeiros and transmontanos, perhaps there is a link to these iberian dogs.
alk
 
Posts: 44
Joined: 15. November 2016, 14:23
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Re: The Saint Bernard

Postby sunnyAK on 16. September 2017, 20:18

alk wrote:Not that huge in the old days.

I´m quite sure (not 100%) they got at least an LGD influence. But old pics really look very bulldog/mastiff like. Especially on the last pic.
I always think on old pics they are quite similar to rafeiros and transmontanos, perhaps there is a link to these iberian dogs.


I agree that they also have LGD influence and I guess they added size. I would say the Saint Bernard probalby has influence of the Mastin Espanol and according to this source his roots are celtic.

"Two recent landmark genetic studies have confirmed Walsh to be correct. The first, “Multiple and Ancient Origins of the Domestic Dog” (1997), traced the mitochondrial DNA from ancient times to the present day Greyhound. Interestingly, three other breeds derive from the same strain, the St. Bernard, Miniature Schnauzer, and the Irish Setter, which suggests male-line introductions of other breeds to Greyhound-line females who were the foundations of those breeds. All three originate in areas where Celtic culture flourished.
The second, and more definitive study, “Genetic Structure of the Purebred Domestic Dog” (2004), used Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs), clumps of identical DNA strings that appear in groups of breeds, but often not in others. The study clearly showed that Salukis and Afghan Hounds were part of an “Asian” group along with the Chow, Akita, and Shar-pei. Predictably, the Greyhound appeared in what I’ll call the “Celtic” group along with the Irish Wolfhound, but also as a progenitor fo more recent breeds including the Whippet, Borzoi, Belgian Sheepdog, Belgian Tervuren, Collie, Shetland Sheepdog, and the St. Bernard. A glance at a map clearly shows that all those breeds originate within the influence of Celtic culture in Europe."


http://www.greyhoundinfo.org/?page_id=22
sunnyAK
 
Posts: 897
Joined: 20. December 2013, 19:17
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male

Re: The Saint Bernard

Postby 1234 on 18. September 2017, 22:11

I grew up with one of these dogs once... a nice dog but it shed and drooled everywhere lol. For me at least it was waaaayy to human friendly... like someone could come up to me and stab me and the dog would lick them to death. I remember too this dog would run miles away from our home and we would unassally have to come grab him from somebody. As in terms of physical strength I believe it is more about the individual of the dog rather than the breed. For me at least. I find that my CAO is much naturally stronger than the st.bernard, however I do excersice my cao much more and that the st.bernard was very submissive to people he would barely tug on lead. I'm not saying cao are stronger than St. Bernard in general but what I am saying is that individualy they vary. But yes the St. Bernard has great working potential. I actually don't think they are ruined as much as most English mastiffs you see. One thing for sure I remember my old st.bernard use to chase moose away and keep the coyotes at bay... the dog was actually a beast. Just because everyone thinks st.bernards are useless giant lapdogs doesn't mean they are(at least some of them anyway). With that said I am sure you can raise or find human agressive st.bernards but it will be harder than other breeds or types.
1234
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 10. May 2014, 20:43
Country: Canada (ca)
Gender: Male

Re: The Saint Bernard

Postby sunnyAK on 19. September 2017, 19:48

1234 wrote:I grew up with one of these dogs once... a nice dog but it shed and drooled everywhere lol. For me at least it was waaaayy to human friendly... like someone could come up to me and stab me and the dog would lick them to death. I remember too this dog would run miles away from our home and we would unassally have to come grab him from somebody. As in terms of physical strength I believe it is more about the individual of the dog rather than the breed. For me at least. I find that my CAO is much naturally stronger than the st.bernard, however I do excersice my cao much more and that the st.bernard was very submissive to people he would barely tug on lead. I'm not saying cao are stronger than St. Bernard in general but what I am saying is that individualy they vary. But yes the St. Bernard has great working potential. I actually don't think they are ruined as much as most English mastiffs you see. One thing for sure I remember my old st.bernard use to chase moose away and keep the coyotes at bay... the dog was actually a beast. Just because everyone thinks st.bernards are useless giant lapdogs doesn't mean they are(at least some of them anyway). With that said I am sure you can raise or find human agressive st.bernards but it will be harder than other breeds or types.


Yeah, I guess most of the Saint Bernhards you would have to cross to a performance dog. (Like for example to an perfprmance Ambull.)
A dog like this one bred to a real performance dog could work very well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEBJ8y4oKQs
sunnyAK
 
Posts: 897
Joined: 20. December 2013, 19:17
Country: Germany (de)
Gender: Male


Return to All kinds of breed profiles (no alaunt-types)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron