Coyote Hounds

Coyote Hounds

Postby 1234 on 14. November 2014, 05:03

Any thoughts?
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby Varna on 14. November 2014, 06:05

I have never heard of them? Do they kill coyotes?
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby da pink on 14. November 2014, 11:33

I've seen greyhounds used very successfully
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby 1234 on 14. November 2014, 20:27

Yes they do kill the coyotes, I have heard that greyhounds and lurches are commonly used and sometimes APBT x sight hound are used quite often to run them down and kill them. Sometimes even larger dogs are used like Dogos.
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby da pink on 17. November 2014, 12:19

I'd think bullgrey would be the dog for the job. . . . .
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby Gun on 18. November 2014, 10:26

I have a fair few pics and also some books with info about them and etc, just honestly have had no time lately at all but it's coming.

Just quickly a bull grey could certainly catch and kill a coyote but isn't as fast and efficient as what the serious coyote hunting staghound guys in the US expect. They may need to run down a coyote with a huge head start and fast before it gets to cover so their dogs are almost straight greyhounds, certainly in appearance. They have no trouble killing coyotes fast either, the dogs that get killed by coyotes, whether they're bichon frise or labradors or rottweilers, are clearly wussy city dogs with no idea. There is no "fight" between a coyote and a proper american staghound. No different to a terrier with a rat.
Keep in mind these are the same dogs, often even the same lineage, as the dogs that used to be used extensively to hunt wolves in america.
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby da pink on 18. November 2014, 10:42

I know nowt about coyotes, really, would have thought a bull grey quick enough. Bull/grey to grey? More like it?

An American Staghound is basically a lurcher, right? Or what we'd call a lurcher?
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby Gun on 19. November 2014, 03:04

It's mostly a greyhound/deerhound, so perhaps a "longdog" in the uk?
Although as coyotes become the primary target for them they're getting more and more like just greyhounds. I've sort of witnessed their evolution through the ages with pics and they're definitely getting less and less deerhound and more and more greyhound. It's interesting because it's the opposite of aussie staghounds, which in the old days were way more like greyhounds and are now a lot more like deerhounds. With american staghounds I think it's because they used to be expected to hunt wolves, as like their most important role, now no one in the us really does that and it's just coyotes and although absolutely a deerhound x greyhound can catch a coyote very well, even a straight deerhound, and a bull grey could too, it just seems like in general the luxury of speed will be maximised as far as possible while maintaining the ability for an efficient kill. So if you can afford to to lose anything contrary to speed, you do, because it just means less prey animals getting away and faster catches, which is way higher on the order of priorities than having the dog easily and emphatically beat the shit out of the prey animal in an impressive fashion.
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby da pink on 19. November 2014, 14:50

Makes sense, & as they use the (from what I've seen) the greyhounds in packs they maybe don't need the extra "firepower"
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby Gun on 19. November 2014, 23:14

I've seen a lot of coyotes caught 1 on 1 by greyhound looking amstags, in fact haven't seen packs used but I'm sure some people would do it that way. Old accounts suggests packs of around 4 to 6 were used on wolves. Notably teddy Roosevelt did a lot of wolf hunting with what he described as greyhounds.

My dog is obsessed with hunting foxes, tried encouraging him to focus on deer and hare but he is passionate about foxes and not all that interested in anything else. Wonder if coyotes would get the same treatment? He'll probably get his chance on feral dogs after I move.
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby freed on 20. November 2014, 04:14

Interesting discussion guys. Good stuff to learn about these dogs! 8-)
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby da pink on 20. November 2014, 11:09

Gun wrote:I've seen a lot of coyotes caught 1 on 1 by greyhound looking amstags, in fact haven't seen packs used but I'm sure some people would do it that way. Old accounts suggests packs of around 4 to 6 were used on wolves. Notably teddy Roosevelt did a lot of wolf hunting with what he described as greyhounds.

My dog is obsessed with hunting foxes, tried encouraging him to focus on deer and hare but he is passionate about foxes and not all that interested in anything else. Wonder if coyotes would get the same treatment? He'll probably get his chance on feral dogs after I move.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkTw8u6qY2M
(only reason I know they'd use packs)

The thing with some of Roosevelts texts is he can be referring to wolves. . . .then on further reading he clarifies he means "prairie wolves" (coyote)

Do we think 4 or 6 old tyme greyhounds could take a timber wolf?
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby Gun on 24. November 2014, 07:41

Well a pack works too, doesn't hurt, I would think it's more about cutting off sharp jinking and jiving rather than that many dogs are required to kill a coyote. One dog is not uncommon and there is no epic fight involved. Just a thrashing.

Just a couple pics of 1 on 1 chases.

Image

Image

A guy I've talked to about coyote hunting and his dogs-

Image

Image


Yes I absolutely do think 4 or 6 proper hunting greyhounds could take a proper wolf. I'd have to refresh my memory with roosevelts writings and re read for specifics but I feel like I definitely have read him comparing dogging a coyote with dogging a wolf and how obviously the latter is quite hazardous but still done and clearly distinguishing between the two pursuits.

An old pic from back when a little wolf-dogging was still going on, note the wolf skin amongst the coyote skins.
Image
I have no doubt the dogs that caught the coyotes caught the wolf too.

I think sighthounds are crazy underrated, especially greyhounds, deerhounds, staghounds, whippets, etc. Even track greyhounds, I have heard of them killing each other many times, and I've also heard of a retired ex-racer shockingly killing a big male german shepherd in a matter of seconds by just suddenly throttling it's throat when a disagreement broke out. Looks can be deceiving, sighthounds have evolved to be elite killers for thousands of years. Greyhounds also aren't so gracile, if you see a greyhound near a saluki or borzoi its quite stark how much more powerfully built and sturdy the greyhound is.

Obviously not optimal fighters as a lot of adaptation has drained over towards speed and chasing, but when you think about a proper gamebred apbt as opposed to stock muscular pitbulls they're quite sleek and still obviously deadly killers, their build is just all business, no show, and sighthounds are the same. Different, not on the same combative level obviously, but still very serious dangerous killer canines in the right circumstances.
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby 1234 on 28. February 2015, 23:35

I was reading not too long ago on some alberta outdoors forum that their dogs ( the forums members) have killed coyotes by themselves before. And it was odd because it wasn't just one person but several people claimed that they had or have a dog that kills coyotes. And none of the dogs where a sighthound. Do you think it's BS or are they telling the truth trying to be typical Albertan rednecks?
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Re: Coyote Hounds

Postby Gun on 1. March 2015, 14:31

Could well be the truth, there's nothing particularly difficult about killing a coyote, having the speed to consistently run them down with a head start and then kill them is what makes a coyote dog. But just killing one in some incident that occured in the yard is no big deal. I'd expect a labrador with a bit of go in it to have no problem achieving that.
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