Creating a superior fighting dog!

Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby da pink on 12. October 2017, 11:16

Gun wrote:Whatever combination of bull, mastiff or terrier... all of the above ha.............................................................s alone in the dog fighting world. Although I agree with you guys that its very distasteful.

I don't believe the gameness in itself is so freakish, top class yes but I believe you will find similar gameness in outstanding working terriers and pig dogs in the field doing what they do, they just won't replicate it in a dog fight, especially the pig dogs which might refuse to even participate at all. Some won't even engage in the dominance ritual (although most will), but then will go out and be fully game hunting a boar.


Again, leads back to where they get this overdrive mindset from.

I do tend to err to the terrier blood being the difference. Was reading a thread on gamedog (some stuck up fuckers on there, let me tell ya) and the majority just cannot see a definition of game beyond how's it used with APBTs. I cannot for the life of me see how they can't call a dog willing to go into a set, have it's lower jaw and eye torn out yet not quit till it's pulled out or dead "game"
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 12. October 2017, 15:51

da pink wrote:
Gun wrote:Two warriors there, very closely .............................................would be your best bet, but I don't see even humans going 12 intense minutes with no breaks and not being exhausted... Maybe some freaks? Not most elite ufc fighters and definitely not any other animal.

We're on the same page there on pretty much everything: I'm fascinated by the dogs blood sports created, fascinated by their performance but feel kind of dirty watching it.

Yeah I hear that. I'm tentative to click on these vids but so far haven't regretted it. Some would say watching anything close to dogfighting makes you a monster, but to me that's borderline superstitious, just not rational, its either cruel or not depending on what happens. If two dogs who want to fight, fight, and are stopped and broken up as soon as one or both doesn't want to fight anymore, and there were no significant injuries during the fight, I'm OK with it. It still doesn't really appeal to me that much but its silly to worry about how "cruel" what I described is when it just isn't.

12 minutes of fighting is a loooooong fucking time in any event, especially when evenly matched, and doubly especially if big. I know the pressure lone tires humans out. I could go full on the pads for 3x5 - in a ring with a person? I'll do the 3x5 but I'm not working all the time. I idly wonder if the adrenaline affects dogs the same. If BKs are still hunting I'd hope they have more endurance than a 6 minute chase & 6 minute fight, though I get your comments on how ripped the bigger pig dogs are, and it could be that these are just at the limits of practical weight

Well they're different kinds of stamina, in a fight you can't take a second off or your opponent will capitalise. I used to be able to run for an hour or play two games of rugby back to back over a few hours, etc but being engaged, literally locked up grappling, in a 1 on 1 close quarter fight with high stakes is a totally different level of intensity. Even at my fittest rugby days where I'd regularly run 10 kms and play rugby for hours I doubt I would have been able to grapple hard in a fight for 10 straight minutes.

A pig dog that could hold a surly pig for 12 solid minutes while the pig fights hard would need to be pretty awesome (frankly it would be awesome from the pig too - wouldn't happen). That dog would need a serious rest in a creek or something, but they have a different kind of stamina where they'll do like 15 sprints ranging from 200 metres to a kilometre and 15 2-3 minute fights over the span of 5 hours (for example - that would be a very good day for your average ute finder/holder Aussie pig dog). Takes a very very fit dog to do that in the heat and perform well enough to not get hurt still even at
the end of the day on fresh new pigs, but even that dog would be stuffed after dog fighting for 12 minutes. I think even an Iditarod dog that runs hundreds of miles for many days back to back would be exhausted after a 12 minute fight. The anaerobic intensity is just different, the amount of exertion required to try and topple over a dog that's trying to do the same back while struggling to avoid getting your throat chomped and etc etc is just very extreme.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Kangal power on 12. October 2017, 16:37

alk wrote:Thanks Gun! That all sound very plausible to me.
Watch an other vid on the page Sunny had postet.
BK vs Volkodav:https://vk.com/video324011009_456239865
Very close matched like in the BK/Tosa-vid and 16min long. For me the Volkodav seems to be more powerfull (and perhaps the better wrestler), but in the moment when the fight was stoped I can not see a clear winner.
(Hallo Sunny if the link is against forum rules, please remove it)


It is very obvious that this BK lost the fight! Nothing else can be accepted period!
The BK actually lost the fight long before the Volkodav was declared to be the winner. The Bully Kutta lacked "fight drive". It tried to escape from the fight a few times and even in the end when the Volkodav once fell to the ground one, mostly the Bully Kutta was on the ground, but even when for a short while in the end the Volkodav fell to the ground, the Bully Kutta used this as an opportunity to "run away", instead of using this to his own advantage in the fight, the Bully Kutta was all about getting away! He just did not have the same fight drive than the Volkodav. Probably as soon as he realized his opponent is too strong for him, his mind-set changed into flight-drive, which started pretty quickly. My brother writes for me, his English is better. Any real Malakli in Turkey would beat the shit out of this Bully Kutta. This doesn't go for most of our Kangals they try to avoid fights, but our Malaklis are fighting dogs and this Bully Kutta would be a victim for them!
Aksaray Malakli:
Image
Lol Bully Kutta the undefeated beast of the east, it made my day!
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby da pink on 12. October 2017, 17:07

Gun wrote:Well they're different kinds of stamina, in a fight you can't take a second off or your opponent will capitalise. I used to be able to run for an hour or play two games of rugby back to back over a few hours, etc but being engaged, literally locked up grappling, in a 1 on 1 close quarter fight with high stakes is a totally different level of intensity. Even at my fittest rugby days where I'd regularly run 10 kms and play rugby for hours I doubt I would have been able to grapple hard in a fight for 10 straight minutes.

A pig dog that could hold a surly pig for 12 solid minutes while the pig fights hard would need to be pretty awesome (frankly it would be awesome from the pig too - wouldn't happen). That dog would need a serious rest in a creek or something, but they have a different kind of stamina where they'll do like 15 sprints ranging from 200 metres to a kilometre and 15 2-3 minute fights over the span of 5 hours (for example - that would be a very good day for your average ute finder/holder Aussie pig dog). Takes a very very fit dog to do that in the heat and perform well enough to not get hurt still even at
the end of the day on fresh new pigs, but even that dog would be stuffed after dog fighting for 12 minutes. I think even an Iditarod dog that runs hundreds of miles for many days back to back would be exhausted after a 12 minute fight. The anaerobic intensity is just different, the amount of exertion required to try and topple over a dog that's trying to do the same back while struggling to avoid getting your throat chomped and etc etc is just very extreme.


Not sure they're different, pad work utilises the same movements & explosiveness. Main differences are in fight you miss a lot, you get hit & your adrenaline is thru' the roof. You generally doing less actual movement, however. The mental pressure is exhausting, I wonder if it is the same for dogs?

I'm surprised 12 minutes would be awesome in pig holding. Not as it looks easy, but that you hear of these hour long dog fights which are a similar scenario
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Rock on 12. October 2017, 22:20

https://vk.com/video324011009_456239865


I liked this white dog,the good grip and holding one place long time,good wrestler,good breathing and is no sesitive on the pain like many LG,very nice dog,but this fighting technic is not typical for sheperds dogs,is more like napolitan mastiff also the his construction,compact body ,strong neck with lot a skin,wide chest etc...at the end that is no important only result is on the first place,anyway,very good boy.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 13. October 2017, 00:41

da pink wrote:
Gun wrote:Well they're different kinds of stamina, in a fight you can't take a second off or your opponent will capitalise. I used to be able to run for an hour or play two games of rugby back to back over a few hours, etc but being engaged, literally locked up grappling, in a 1 on 1 close quarter fight with high stakes is a totally different level of intensity. Even at my fittest rugby days where I'd regularly run 10 kms and play rugby for hours I doubt I would have been able to grapple hard in a fight for 10 straight minutes.

A pig dog that could hold a surly pig for 12 solid minutes while the pig fights hard would need to be pretty awesome (frankly it would be awesome from the pig too - wouldn't happen). That dog would need a serious rest in a creek or something, but they have a different kind of stamina where they'll do like 15 sprints ranging from 200 metres to a kilometre and 15 2-3 minute fights over the span of 5 hours (for example - that would be a very good day for your average ute finder/holder Aussie pig dog). Takes a very very fit dog to do that in the heat and perform well enough to not get hurt still even at
the end of the day on fresh new pigs, but even that dog would be stuffed after dog fighting for 12 minutes. I think even an Iditarod dog that runs hundreds of miles for many days back to back would be exhausted after a 12 minute fight. The anaerobic intensity is just different, the amount of exertion required to try and topple over a dog that's trying to do the same back while struggling to avoid getting your throat chomped and etc etc is just very extreme.


Not sure they're different, pad work utilises the same movements & explosiveness. Main differences are in fight you miss a lot, you get hit & your adrenaline is thru' the roof. You generally doing less actual movement, however. The mental pressure is exhausting, I wonder if it is the same for dogs?

I'm surprised 12 minutes would be awesome in pig holding. Not as it looks easy, but that you hear of these hour long dog fights which are a similar scenario

I don't really know how long a dog could hold a pig, once the pig gave up (which they will often do in a minute or two, sometimes instantly) I'm sure a dog could hold it for a very long time, almost indefinitely, but while the pig is actively trying to kill the dog its going to be very exhausting. I just doubt that would ever happen for 12 solid intense minutes, I don't think the pig will have that in it, but if it did yeah I think it would be a serious test of the dogs anaerobic endurance. Ofcourse they work for hours and run for miles no problem but that's different to the high intensity high stakes combative exertion of struggling with something trying to kill you.

The mental aspect will be there for dogs, its a primal thing where your whole body goes into hyper drive fearing death (without trying to be too dramatic, but that's basically what happens on an instinctual level). A skill developed by both experienced dogs and humans is slowing all that down and relaxing in the midst of chaotic combat and the more this is mastered the better your stamina will seem to be as you'll be fighting with a lower heart rate and your muscles won't be permanently tensed, you'll only be using the energy you need, so you can really pace yourself and draw the fight out while the opponent blows a gasket just from freaking out about the fight.

Another thing though is a dog fight needs to be understood as a grappling contest, and not a striking contest. The weird thing about human fighting is I'd say on average boxers and kickboxers have better stamina than mma fighters but I don't know why because an mma fight is more exhausting, minute for minute. Floyd was fresh as a daisy while conor gassed hard, but he lasted 10 rounds, in mma he's always exhausted by the third round. There's, potentially (every fight is different) more rests to be had in the heat of battle of a striking fight vs a grappling fight. Not much in either, small cracks in time, but they're there. Also, more significantly, throwing a punch is less physically exerting than throwing a person (or dog), or even trying to lift a person, general grappling struggles back and forth. Trying to pull someone down, trying to hold them down, trying to get up while they hold you down, etc... I'd say its like in the gym you can hit the bag a thousand times but you can't do a thousand reps of a significant weight.
Again, both require great stamina and for whatever reason professional strikers seem to have better stamina than professional grapplers (higher level of professionalism?) but I think theres no question intense grappling is more taxing on stamina reserves than intense striking.
And when watching these dog fights we need to relate to is as a grappling match. The dog equivalent of striking would be like what rough bay dogs or even wolves do on a hunt. They keep distance, circle around, feinting and lunging in with striking bites. They can keep that up for hours and the prey can too. But holding a bite and being fully joined in a close quarter grapple is a different thing, and I don't think I've seen wolves endure that contest for longer than a minute or two, and only after their opponent is sufficiently exhausted and unable fight.

I'd say holding dogs over the centuries developed this specific kind of endurance, and a big part of is probably mental, to be composed and relaxed while engaged in combat, and then dog fighters noted how advantageous this was for dog fights and so holding dogs have been the main foundation for most fighting dogs. When you look at Japan they had centuries of using Spitz types as fighting dogs which were more wolf like in their fighting but as soon as they encountered holding dogs the holding dogs dragged them into deep water and probably exhausted them within a couple of minutes. These Spitz breeds had/have awesome stamina but its just a different kind. From there they had to develop the holding dog based tosa.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 13. October 2017, 00:58

Rock wrote:https://vk.com/video324011009_456239865


I liked this white dog,the good grip and holding one place long time,good wrestler,good breathing and is no sesitive on the pain like many LG,very nice dog,but this fighting technic is not typical for sheperds dogs,is more like napolitan mastiff also the his construction,compact body ,strong neck with lot a skin,wide chest etc...at the end that is no important only result is on the first place,anyway,very good boy.

Again though its so much bigger than its opponent, that bothers me quite a bit to be honest. Volkodavs do seem to do very well in these vids and I'm close to saying they're the best but they're always much much bigger than their opponent and that is stopping me. Granted there just aren't tosas and BKS big enough to match that dog, but there are small enough volkodavs to match bks and tosas. I'd love to see that bk against a same sized volkodav, it would probably need to be 3 or 4 inches shorter than the bk and that volkodav. It almost seems these guys have "height classes" at the moment.

It was an impressive performance from the volkodav, don't get me wrong. Went on too long though. The bk gave up around 9:30.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby alk on 13. October 2017, 07:01

Yes, but the BK started fighting back again and again and even when the fight was broke up, he wanted to hit back.
So I´m an LGD-man but, never would underrate such a BK. Very impressiv to me both of them. That´s why I ment theres no clear ending.
Or lets say I wont call this or that breed better in general.
BTW: got the feeling my own CAO is tiny in direkt comparison to these dogs. He had his 2. birthday yesterday.

I kept a while on that page sunny showed us, yesterday.
In this case https://vk.com/video324011009_456239288 the volkodav is much smaller, but did not do a bad job at all.
And I´m very glad about the surrender in the end.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby da pink on 13. October 2017, 13:30

Gun wrote:Again, both require great stamina and for whatever reason professional strikers seem to have better stamina than professional grapplers (higher level of professionalism?) but I think theres no question intense grappling is more taxing on stamina reserves than intense striking.
And when watching these dog fights we need to relate to is as a grappling match. The dog equivalent of striking would be like what rough bay dogs or even wolves do on a hunt. They keep distance, circle around, feinting and lunging in with striking bites. They can keep that up for hours and the prey can too. But holding a bite and being fully joined in a close quarter grapple is a different thing, and I don't think I've seen wolves endure that contest for longer than a minute or two, and only after their opponent is sufficiently exhausted and unable fight.

I'd say holding dogs over the centuries developed this specific kind of endurance, and a big part of is probably mental, to be composed and relaxed while engaged in combat, and then dog fighters noted how advantageous this was for dog fights and so holding dogs have been the main foundation for most fighting dogs. When you look at Japan they had centuries of using Spitz types as fighting dogs which were more wolf like in their fighting but as soon as they encountered holding dogs the holding dogs dragged them into deep water and probably exhausted them within a couple of minutes. These Spitz breeds had/have awesome stamina but its just a different kind. From there they had to develop the holding dog based tosa.


Maan, I know you're an ugly mofo & quite possibly a cunt to drink with but I do enjoy your posts. I've said before....write a book.

All true, I used to box fro 12 rounds easy. add kicks and you can half that. Clinching and 3 minutes leaves me being sick......it's the constant energy expenditure as you say. Remember a thread on carnivora asking what we thought was the best quality to help win a fight. Everyone said bite force....to me it's endurance.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Rock on 13. October 2017, 22:05

The fighting dog need to be complet from the simple reason,what is the size without gameness or high pain resistance,the result is dog who will make a lot noise 5 - 10 min and giv up from the fight,also sometimes gameness is not enough if dog is not hard mouthed and you have fight two ours but with minimum damage and winner is of course dog in better phisical condition.In the world of the hevy weight is very hard have a complet fighting dog,the size is problem if fight going on the long distance,with two hw over 15 min your dog can winn but also very easy he can die becouse his heart,lungs etc suffer a lot during such fight.Many times was happend where dogs 40-50 kg kill the much bigger dog in the closed space,ring or cage.The big dog if make the vital damage in 10 min he will winn but how time going on if he can not strangle the opponent he became just bunch of flesh for bull breeds.That is almost the rule in the mix fights.The today is almost immposible find the pure breed in the LG world,influence of the eng. mastiff tosas,danes is so obviously that nobody can close the eye.The sheperd dogs over 80 - 90-100 kg?Where he can guard the flock with 90 kg? In the butcher yard for sure,but in the mountain ,no way,also in the fight they can give perfomance 5-10 min with 90 kg and what is that?What he can proof for 10 min?
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby sunnyAK on 14. October 2017, 00:36

Rock wrote:
https://vk.com/video324011009_456239865

I liked this white dog,the good grip and holding one place long time,good wrestler,good breathing and is no sesitive on the pain like many LG,very nice dog,but this fighting technic is not typical for sheperds dogs,is more like napolitan mastiff also the his construction,compact body ,strong neck with lot a skin,wide chest etc...at the end that is no important only result is on the first place,anyway,very good boy.


This was the final match of the champioships in China. All kinds of breed participated there, even without weight classes, which might be a bit strange, but interesting.
The final fight was Bully Kutta vs a Volkodav from Russia. The Volkodav won this match and with that said the whole tournament.

The BK was from famous lines. I have no info about the Volkodav, but if for sure never has won a Volkodav tournament. (I would know this.)

This BK would not only have lost, but been blown away by this white & brindle Volkodav here:
(He is way bigger and more powerful than the white Volkodav that fought the Bully Kutta and is even more determined.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB7hws5 ... e=youtu.be
By the way a BK could not really do damage to this Volkodav at all. Wrestling a much heavier and stronger opponent will take away way more endurance than most people think. Also damage will take away endurance.

I would say the most complete fighter would be inbetween such a big Volkodav and a performance Ambull. Of course then you would have to select for the best traits for combat!

alk wrote:I kept a while on that page sunny showed us, yesterday.
In this case https://vk.com/video324011009_456239288 the volkodav is much smaller, but did not do a bad job at all.
And I´m very glad about the surrender in the end.


By the way, people always told the Bully Kutta was the king of stamina concerning big fighting breeds. I myself thought that we could agree to this "statement". Gun often told that he doesn´t see this "super endurance" in them, just by looking at their very big bodies. They are mostly very tall dogs etc. Now I think Gun must be right. This Bully Kutta here was very tired from wrestling a middle weight Volkodav and already was gasping for air in 4:15 minutes onwards. I would have seen no chance for this Bully Kutta against a more determined dog. A dog with the intend to kill, could even have killed him in this situation :!:
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 14. October 2017, 02:02

alk wrote:I kept a while on that page sunny showed us, yesterday.
In this case https://vk.com/video324011009_456239288 the volkodav is much smaller, but did not do a bad job at all.
And I´m very glad about the surrender in the end.

Well that's a much better weight match, the bk might even be slightly heavier if there is a difference.

The bk in this seemed very gangly and awkward, like many do (but not all). They're a confusing breed, sometimes I wonder if they aren't just pure shit, with the odd one being OK out of pure dumb luck and the universal law of averages.

Volkodav's really are quite impressive in these videos. Its counter intuitive to me that lgd derived dogs should be good at fighting at all, but I guess maybe the traditional dog fighting has always been there and actually played a bigger role in making them than sitting out in the field with sheep ever did. I don't know...
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 14. October 2017, 02:17

sunnyAK wrote:Wrestling a much heavier and stronger opponent will take away way more endurance than most people think.

This is a good point. Smaller dogs have better stamina but in a fight between a big dog and a small dog the smaller dog will often wear out first because it has been doing so much more work, so much more "heavy lifting". The larger one can kind of just stand there and rest for most of the fight.

Personally I think weight classes are pretty important.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 14. October 2017, 02:21

da pink wrote:Maan, I know you're an ugly mofo & quite possibly a cunt to drink with

How dare you! I'm not a cunt to drink with, I'm a cunt to not drink with.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby alk on 14. October 2017, 09:21

Well that's a much better weight match, the bk might even be slightly heavier if there is a difference.

I would even say that the volkodav is much lighter than you all may think. Dont forget their in the main very thick coat. They look usually much havier than they really are. Only more modern fighting lines got very short hair, like the last ones sunny showed. If you see them with wet coat they often look extremly slim.
IMO many LGD owners add 10-20kg wenn talking about weight, only because the dogs look like that, but its all about fur.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby sunnyAK on 15. October 2017, 07:00

alk wrote:
Well that's a much better weight match, the bk might even be slightly heavier if there is a difference.

I would even say that the volkodav is much lighter than you all may think. Dont forget their in the main very thick coat. They look usually much havier than they really are. Only more modern fighting lines got very short hair, like the last ones sunny showed. If you see them with wet coat they often look extremly slim.
IMO many LGD owners add 10-20kg wenn talking about weight, only because the dogs look like that, but its all about fur.


I totally agree with you, this Volkodav was pretty small and didn´t look like he came from a fighting lines at all :!:

What is your opinion? If we bred such a monster (the white & brindle Volkodav) to such a performance Ambull, couldn´t this be a top-level fighter able to match all kinds of BKs etc.?
Performance Ambull: Image
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Rock on 15. October 2017, 10:43

The bull breeds are born for dog fighting and that is the already tested in arenas many,many centuries befor us.

This brindle dog is the same dog who was fighting on the video before and winn the black white volkodav,here is against 40 kg dog,and he is a 90 kg,also this is not the ring or cage this is on the field what is not good for bull breed,but anyway,you can see the scenario when bull is not 20 kg where big dog can him strangle.

https://vk.com/videos324011009?z=video- ... 4011009_-2


40 kg vs 90 kg

btw--the pit is not from some famous lines.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Kangal power on 15. October 2017, 13:34

Rock wrote:The bull breeds are born for dog fighting and that is the already tested in arenas many,many centuries befor us.

This brindle dog is the same dog who was fighting on the video before and winn the black white volkodav,here is against 40 kg dog,and he is a 90 kg,also this is not the ring or cage this is on the field what is not good for bull breed,but anyway,you can see the scenario when bull is not 20 kg where big dog can him strangle.

https://vk.com/videos324011009?z=video- ... 4011009_-2


40 kg vs 90 kg

btw--the pit is not from some famous lines.


Hi bro, I just have my smartphone with me and the video doesn't open. I will watch it later. Are there already some bull breed x Volkodav crosses in the arenas? I would love to see some pics of them.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby sunnyAK on 15. October 2017, 14:44

Rock wrote:The bull breeds are born for dog fighting and that is the already tested in arenas many,many centuries befor us.

This brindle dog is the same dog who was fighting on the video before and winn the black white volkodav,here is against 40 kg dog,and he is a 90 kg,also this is not the ring or cage this is on the field what is not good for bull breed,but anyway,you can see the scenario when bull is not 20 kg where big dog can him strangle.

https://vk.com/videos324011009?z=video- ... 4011009_-2

40 kg vs 90 kg

btw--the pit is not from some famous lines.


No bro, it is not the same dog, it is a different Volkodav :!:
Here the video again for all of you to compare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB7hws5 ... e=youtu.be
Image
Just compare their markings again and you also will see a difference in their body. However the main difference is the determination and the fighting style both dogs had. The Volkodav I have showed, had the determination of Mike Tyson combined with the body and size of Anthony Joshua lol. :o :shock:

P.S. By the way the bull breed in the video used a good and common way to fight bigger dogs. He did get under the bigger dog and got a hold on its throat. (This could work well against a Bully Kutta too, that´s why I once said, the tactics with starting to fight standing only on the hind legs, like BKs always do, could be exploited and countered by such a fighting style.)
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Rock on 15. October 2017, 20:18

You are right,this is another dog,brindle color is litle bit confuzing,but just look the fighting technic in this dog : head,neck and than tail??The another thing,you said determination ,how is possible know dtermination of the dog in 8 min?This dog need the go in the ring with this pit bull on the link and than we can see how is long will to fight after litle bit a longer time,also the he is for sure around 90 kg,same like this brindle dog where fighting against pit bull.I will repeat again : if he can not strangle bulldog in the first 5-10 min,he will loos the fight ,from the two reasons.The pitbull will not stop becouse they are game breed and if they are between 40 - 45 kg is very very hard strangle such big pit,almost immposible,the second reason is size of big dog after primary raw explosion he will easy loos the air in the lungs and and blood circle and heart can pump on the long distance so much blood,sudenlly he will have two big problem: the strong bull under he neck and own body under big air pressure.The size is advantage but also very big problem.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby Gun on 15. October 2017, 22:37

I think a big rangey pitbull, not even like that one which is only big because of the amount of meat on it, but like watchdog's little thor or his dad Thor (can't post the pics but they show up on google images if you search), could do very well in these open weight fights. All they need to do is not die for 10 minutes, like that one did. Like rock said that's not even a serious lines pitbull, just s stubborn little nugget that wouldn't flush. Doesn't look 40 kgs to me BTW, but maybe, either way its not in optimal shape, could lose quite a few, but for this purpose maybe was better not to. There are elite gamebred apbts, famous champions even, that are a lean 80lbs. Big tall dogs. Everyone likes to say a "real pitbull is only 30 lbs" or its like the smaller the weight they say the more "in the know" they are, "the really real pitbulls weigh as much as dust and you need a microscope to watch them fight". Probably the really ridiculously game apbts are all on the smaller side, but there is a lot of variation in serious fighting lines of apbt because there is no conformation standard, there have been very big famous champion apbts, there have been champion apbts known to not be very game but just killed their opponents quickly (one was called zebo I believe, shit stamina and poor gameness but a champion because he killed dogs quickly). There is no strict small pigeonhole for apbts, its kind of like saying " ufc fighters have great ko power with their fists but are bad at kicking" wait... Which ufc fighter?

What people are trying to do when they say apbts are small is separate real apbts from petbulls, xls, jumbos, shoppers and whatever other nonsense someone has going on, and true these are nothing like real pitbulls, but some real pitbulls are big, and yes they would be great candidates for an open weight fighting tournament.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby alk on 16. October 2017, 06:44

What is your opinion? If we bred such a monster (the white & brindle Volkodav) to such a performance Ambull, couldn´t this be a top-level fighter able to match all kinds of BKs etc.?




If I look at this warriors, I could not see pure LGD´s any more. I think in that fightingline volkodavs there is already a lot of bullbreed added. Look at the short coat and the broad heads. They are only had been selected for size and heavy weight fighting.
For their purpose they do already fit nearly perfect, I think. I think there is not much to add any more, if you want a smaller and quicker one, you only have to select one.
There have to be such dogs, at least when they had developed like its in my mind.
But your right adding a plus of the right Ambull will do the same. This could be a very light standardtyp, nearly pitbull like dog IMO.

BTW: such a dog could be a beast of a guard, like you were looking for in the other thread.

@gun:
Luckily those fights were not fought out to death. So perhaps that extra stamina and gameness is not a real advantage, because the pitbull could not even come to that point. Because they were separated to early for the pit. (Perhaps?)
I mean there must be a reason why nobody (or only a few) in that szene is going that way. (Only a thought)
And its surely not that easy to get beyond that 10 min.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby da pink on 16. October 2017, 12:08

Gun wrote:I think a big rangey pitbull, not even like that one which is only big because of the amount of meat on it, but like watchdog's little thor or his dad Thor (can't post the pics but they show up on google images if you search), could do very well in these open weight fights. All they need to do is not die for 10 minutes, like that one did. Like rock said that's not even a serious lines pitbull, just s stubborn little nugget that wouldn't flush. Doesn't look 40 kgs to me BTW, but maybe, either way its not in optimal shape, could lose quite a few, but for this purpose maybe was better not to. There are elite gamebred apbts, famous champions even, that are a lean 80lbs. Big tall dogs. Everyone likes to say a "real pitbull is only 30 lbs" or its like the smaller the weight they say the more "in the know" they are, "the really real pitbulls weigh as much as dust and you need a microscope to watch them fight". Probably the really ridiculously game apbts are all on the smaller side, but there is a lot of variation in serious fighting lines of apbt because there is no conformation standard, there have been very big famous champion apbts, there have been champion apbts known to not be very game but just killed their opponents quickly (one was called zebo I believe, shit stamina and poor gameness but a champion because he killed dogs quickly). There is no strict small pigeonhole for apbts, its kind of like saying " ufc fighters have great ko power with their fists but are bad at kicking" wait... Which ufc fighter?

What people are trying to do when they say apbts are small is separate real apbts from petbulls, xls, jumbos, shoppers and whatever other nonsense someone has going on, and true these are nothing like real pitbulls, but some real pitbulls are big, and yes they would be great candidates for an open weight fighting tournament.

Image
Image

What great looking dogs.
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby sunnyAK on 17. October 2017, 01:00

alk wrote:BTW: such a dog could be a beast of a guard, like you were looking for in the other thread.


Cool, the perfect fighter and at the same time a perfect protector and guardian.

By the way how about Ambulls and guardian qualities? I have often seen the Bullmastiff being described as a perfect guardian with a great sensory instict to judge all kind of situations. Ambulls seem to be different. Well a good Ambull could add stable nerves I guess!
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Re: Creating a superior fighting dog!

Postby alk on 17. October 2017, 06:36

I personally only knew 2 ambulls a bit better. These ones are both bullytyp dogs non standardtyp.
They are both very calm dogs, as long as no other is getting on their nerves. Both kind of gentle to humans and very good with children. Don´t know what´s up when the owner is not around.
When exercising they are a little slow and stubborn, but not as much as my CAO.
In my mind standardtypes have a little more drive, more like pbt or staffis. But I can´t say exactly.
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