The Fila Brasileiro

Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Bandog on 26. April 2015, 22:57

steven wrote:Went last week to a fila breder in holland. She said she had show and workinglines. I had 2 say that the dogs looked really atletic and fit, not like
those massive drooling show dogs that lay for dead after 5 mins of running. I asked her if the still tested her dogs for protectiveness because for me
that is the only way to say you have a guarddog. She told me no and she told me that her dogs will protect her if there was really a threat. I disagreed
with her and told her that she had a false hope of of protection and that she was fooling herself and potential buyers. I told her that ive been 2 england 2 see
some Cacasians and the almost took my head of when i was trying 2 threaten his owner and i told her about my false hope i had ones in dogs ( my Boerboel was a joke!)...no more i told her..i need tested dogs that is the only way. We had som interesting discussions and i was ready 2 leave the place with my girlfriend and kids. But i think i angerd her a little bit and she wanted 2 show me that her dogs were able and ready 2 take me. She took her most agressive fila and wanted 2 to a test. She took him out of his kennel and i was already of there propperty with my family. Her husband came out with this male fila and i didnt move he came right at me with the fila and he looked at me and did nothing..then the dog went 2 pee and didnt even look at me anymore..i then start walking up 2 the dog and his owner and was really close and still nothing..the dog was more warry of my kids and girlfriend that were standing somewere else..at this time a stranger past by and the dog went nuts! That was the agression i wanted 2 see against me! I started 2 make jokes that i was alredy a familie member..they didnt really like that..haha. Then she said..mabey if you shake my hand..but still no reaction..i even gave her husband a hand who was holding the fila..and nothing..now i have
2 say that im not afraid of no dog so they will feel that..but still a good fila would have jumped for me. What do you guys think about that.
Next week im going 2 see some Ca de bous...really want 2 see those dogs.


This will be the case with most guarding dogs. That Fila didn't have a go at you, despite being with its owner. Imagine if he wasnt there. Proper guarding ability, as in actually attacking if needed, will always require at least a lot of encouragement. There may be a few nutty dogs out there who will just go for it but at the end of the day these dogs will be more unstable and hence, less trustworthy.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Gun on 26. April 2015, 23:43

I don't see why it should have attacked you? You were obviously already accepted by his owner, and ofcourse he could sense that. It may well be a POS, I have no idea, but to me it sounds like you're expecting a dog to be unstable and crazy when it's totally uncalled for. Now if you were either a legitimate threat, or a really good decoy that could convincingly act like a legitimate threat, and the dog did nothing, then I'd say it's crap. But shaking the owners hand? A good guard dog should not attack you for that. The bandog I had was considered a proper pp dog and he could be patted by the actual decoy he was just chewing on as long as the decoy calmed down and stopped acting like a threat, then if he went from patting the dog back into being a threat the dog would immediately switch on again. That is considered the pinnacle of temperaments for a guard dog. Not a dog that just wildly attacks anyone and everyone all the time for no reason.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Bandog on 27. April 2015, 01:52

Im going by what Stephen recalled, he said it was the owners "most aggressive dog". Especially considering the owner said they hadn't been trained and barked at a passing by stranger. The level of civility you are describing is not going to happen in many dogs without training. I think that is the most important part of pp training, getting the dog to recognize appropriate behavior to react to.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Gun on 27. April 2015, 02:16

Well the dog I'm talking about did that with no training whatsoever, and I mean "sit" had inconsistent results.

As far as I'm concerned a dog attacks a person for one of 3 reasons-
1. fear/nerves - this is very bad, the mark of a cowardly weak minded cull of a dog, such a dog may well have attacked steven in that scenario but that wouldn't have been impressive imo, more pathetic
2. Prey - this is cool, but bad, this is a dog that just wants to fuck up a person the same way it wants to fuck up a rat or a cat or whatever. Such dogs are a massive liability to own in today's society, and no doubt yesterday's society as well. A responsible owner has to treat such a dog like hannibal lector. I wouldn't mind having one with the right resources, but most people don't have those resources and never will.
3. A perceived threat- this is good. A calm stable dog that is a perfectly civilised gentlemen and not easily phased or intimidated but also has the courage to act when a threat arises.

IMO the fila described could well have been in the 3rd category, it didn't do anything wrong. On the other hand it might just be a friendly harmless goofball, we don't know from what happened, so I don't agree with judging it harshly.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Bandog on 27. April 2015, 04:59

Maybe I am being unfair but you have to admit, most guard dogs fall into the first category. Certainly for most rotties, sheps etc. Never met a fila so I cant really say to begin with lol.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby steven on 27. April 2015, 12:08

Thanks guys for the feedback and you both make good pionts. I dont have experients with filas thats way i ask you guys and i hope somebody who had filas or worked with them could tell me. Filas are not my fevorite dogs just the fact that they see everything as a treath makes them not the ideal guarddog for me, dont like the fact that i have to put away a dog if the plummer comes and my girlfriend is still all alone with this guy and the dog lockedup in the other room!! but i think it will always be better then a dog that does totally nothing and gif you false hope!( what i had with my last dog!) So i thought lets see those ruthless killers myself and see if its was true that those cafib hard dogs take no prisoners! I saw already some sharp Cos and they did what the hype makes you believe..(the good ones then!)...i still rather have a good balanced dog that makes himself a good jjudgement who is a friend or foo and you dont have to put him away and can take him with you everywere. But to find a dog like that is hard and i want the parends tested with a decoy 2 be shure..dont believe a word what a breeder will tell me and selling stories i will not bey anymore! So for me only tested dogs.. So then i come 2 a fila or Co who are tested and then i have 2 lock them away when somebody comes over but i know that he really would do something if im not there and my familie is. There is still a presa breeder in germany who says he got the real deal so i want to pay him a visit as wel...i think a good presa can make that judgement who is a friend or foo but thats what i think..never met a good presa!

you are write Bandog most dogs will do noyhing and a few will do something..i understand what Gun i saying that there is no need for a dog 2 attack if there is no real threat..thats what i want to see in a dog..a normal stable dog (that are so hard to find!) but from a hard fila i didnt expect this..i read that the show filas were not that hard..less ojeriza and the cabif hard ones had mad ojeriza and nothing can come near the owner and the dog in a radius of 2meter of the owner let alone shake the ownwrs hand! They ownwrs didnt expect this to happon that i was alredy exepted and he didny attack me..this dog would see everything as a threat she said!..so i dont think this is the real deal...also the fila standerd says..they only exept their owners and close familie...and i was neither so i was a stranger and still the dog didnt eat me..or hated me...and thats what ojeriza means...the hatred of strangers!..I would like to visit a breeder who temprement test their filas and have the cafib line...still i will also keep looking for some dogs who are balanced and make a good judgement for there own and handel correctly but still are tested (the parends)...i still like a good boerboel..but if somebody can tell me were i can find one( breeder who temp..tested) i will be gradefull! Hope this Presa breeder in Germany is any good!
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Bandog on 27. April 2015, 12:13

I can tell you now, and I'm sure you already know, finding a dog that can tolerate guests and yet attack, not just bark and carry on but properly maul an intruder on natural instinct is very hard to find.
You seem to be looking at breeds that are quite "exotic" here. May I ask why?
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby steven on 28. April 2015, 12:35

Ive been looking in to dogs from when i was a little boy and proberly every guarddog past my revieuw. My mane reson for exotic dogs is because i thought does dogs were not ruined yet by the big public all the show people..but even today with these exotixc dogs that is the case! And i really like those exotic dog also because ive red so much about them so i fell in love. You are more for the traditional dods?..are there stil some goodones around?
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Bandog on 28. April 2015, 14:23

Put it this way, I feel nurture is a bigger role in dogs than nature. If you breed boerboels for show and I breed bullmastiffs for work, in one or 2 generations my dogs will be better. Developing proper dogs will influence the genes enough to make a difference. For me, it was a question of which stock is better. Exotic breeds that are in limited numbers and bred by enthusiasts rather than workers, or more conventional breeds that have vast bloodlines and lots of people relying on them for work.
I would rather my neo x ba than a presa, cane corso, co etc because I have a better guarentee of work.
I have to put my part in for sure but I can still be more confident of its heritage. A great couple of ways to weed out bad dogs, and I'm sure gun will agree, ignore hype and avoid big price tags.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Gun on 28. April 2015, 15:20

Yeah I think unfortunately alot of the worst kind of breeders are drawn to the more exotic and hyped breeds, it suits them to exploit the mystique and mystery of what they're breeding, pitch some fanciful nonsense about said breed being special and bump up the price tag. They just churn out pups and actually use even more reckless, hap hazard and detrimental selection than even show breeders, ultimately producing even worse dogs, kind of just fast-tracking the ruination. In australia probably the 3 worst breeds right now are boerboels, cane corsos and dogue de bordeauxs. Worse than bull mastiffs, english mastiffs and great danes by far.

I have a cousin that wants a boerboel bad and parrots all sorts of nonsense about them being super intelligent and super agile and heat tolerant. All complete nonsense. They're as dumb as any other bullmastiff and their agility and heat tolerance is exactly as abysmal as one should always expect from a 200lbs meatbag with a short muzzle. But this is the kind of misinformation that festers around exotic breeds.

In general chasing up "breeds" is the wrong way to shop for a dog, you're setting yourself up to run into bad breeders trying to hitch a ride on the coattails of a breed name. Instead you should look for work being performed by dogs, where the work is the priority, then the good dogs will just be there kicking around for cheap.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Bandog on 28. April 2015, 15:31

Exactly. The people with working dogs that bred wont give a damn about price. They'd rather see the puppies leave quickly.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby steven on 28. April 2015, 19:37

Thats write the exotic dogs wil be used to make a qwick buck and you really have to be carefull..but the traditional dogs over here are even wurse..and what i like are the so called natural guardians..we have some good dutch sheperd and malinois here in holland but i dont like those dogs plus they are not that natural protective, really have to work them. And the Boerboel hype was also here in Holland..and i was also a fool to believe that hype, never again!
But bandog you breed working bullmastifs..good! here in europe they are lazy porky pigs! nice to hear that there are still some goodones arround..are they the bullmastiffs of old? still poses some guarding instinct?
I think im going to look for a cafib Fila or if i can find a good proven boerboel line..but dont think they exist..i will try and find one. I Also sent an email to visit some central asian sheprds in the uk this lady says she has the real deal..lets hope so!
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby Gun on 29. April 2015, 01:24

From what I can ascertain you're most interested in bull/mastiff type dogs and in europe(at least) this means entering the working bandog world. However, this doesn't mean you are limited to bandogs if you have your heart set on a more exotic breed, but I'd start at the bandog community, through them you can find legit lineages of pure breeds. For example there are some highly respected Presa canarios and cane corsos in europe but you're not gonna find them searching for Presa canario breeders or cane corso breeders, going that route you're only gonna run into garbage unfortunately. They are instead found through the working bandog community.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby sunnyAK on 29. April 2015, 10:41

Hi Steven, I actually know a Bandog breeder in my town. We met coincidentally having a beer together. I can send you a link to his kennel. He has some nice lean dogs and always tests his stock. He uses Presas, Neos and apbt.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby steven on 30. April 2015, 00:45

Thanks Gun for your advise, always liked bandogs but never visited a good breeder..so its time 2 see some. Yes Andreas i would like that site thanks for that..still my surge for cafib filas will continue..
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby sunnyAK on 2. May 2015, 06:20

If you find a good Cafib Fila you for sure have the right dog concerning what you want to see in a dog.

However, if it won´t be a Fila, I guess it doesn´t necessarily have to be a Bull or Mastiff type dog, or a LGD. A good Malinois (and most of them are really good dogs) would be a top guardian and personal protection dog too.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby steven on 2. May 2015, 11:37

Yes Andreas a good cafib fila i like..not the part that i have to lock him away for guest..but you cant have it all..but i know he will do his job! The thing with malinois is that i dont want to train him to be protective..i do ofcourse obiedens training and train to let go if he bites but no protectiontraining...i have the feeling that a malinois..dutch sheperd are not that naturally protective..and that is what im looking for..if you train them oke..i agree the are top dogs..those dogs can hit a human body like crazy. even the small females ..full of fire!..mabey im wrong with the natuarally protectivenes of those dogs because i never seen one tested like that but also the fact that i dont really like malinous..dutch sheperds or germansheperds..not really my dogs...do you have experients with the natuarally guarding instinct of the malinous?....Ive been looking at some bandogsites and i have 2say..some kennels seem! to have some good working dogs...but i also want to know if those dogs are tested green if they natureally are protective like a fila.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby freed on 3. May 2015, 04:17

From what I have read what you want to see in a dog a Malinois wouldn't be the right dog for you, but for sure also a pretty interesting dog. A good CO or s good Fila is the closest to what you desire in a dog, or even exactly what you want.
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby steven on 15. August 2015, 11:54

I think you are wright. I have some contact with some interesting dog breeders, hope to have a puppy from them in the future( aboritional co breeders and bandog breeders also still looking for some fila breeders, already have 1...my favorite now will be the aboritional co..
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Re: The Fila Brasileiro

Postby sunnyAK on 27. September 2015, 08:04

I just found this disagreement between you and Hugo.

Gun wrote:I personally would rather filas be tested on their ability to track and hunt big game and work cattle first, then their ability to guard. Guarding was really their secondary role they were just expected to also do, not what shaped them into what they are. In the last 50 years or so they've mostly just been bred to be guard dogs/pets/show dogs, and this is what has resulted in them losing functionality and getting so big. Really slowly becoming a different animal because the animal they were was a big game hunter and cattle dog first and foremost (and a hunter of slaves and natives, but we can lose that part).



Gun wrote:Guarding has been the main function of the Fila for a long time and is now his main function for sure (besides show contests). I personally think that the dog should be tested for the ability and the function a dog actually performs. I also think that the Fila is (or has been) a better guardian than hunter or cattle worker. hugo)


Me personally I guess that real suspicion against strangers, not fearbiting/fearing strangers, does come neither from guarding (guarding might be more a territorial thing) nor from hunting/prey drive (of course not from the latter), but from one thing, namely being a "one person breed". This point hasn´t much been mentioned in this discussion yet! But it seems to be an important point.
Now we can specutale a lot what made the Fila Brasileiro an one person breed, but obviously it is an one person breed for quite a long time now. This will always make the breed a much better Guardian provided that the dog is tough and brave, as it doesn´t trust people beside the owner and/or the family.
After talking to a female police officer lately the modern Malinois seems to be like that.
She is specialized in dogs and mentioned that the Malinois has both a crazy prey drive, is very tough and confident, but is way more complicated (or even dangerous) to strangers as he has this extremely close bond with her and beside her he doesn´t like anybody. Lol she said her husband needed three years to come close to her when her Malinois was around, while her GSD is way different concerning that.
P.S. I will also post this in the "Cuban Bloodhound thread" as we were talking about which dog is the closest to the old "slave dogs", so maybe a cross between a large boarhound and a Malinois really would be the closest dog in temperament to the old Cuban Bloodhounds.
She mentioned that the Prey drive inside her Malinois come from apbt Infusion.
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